10:59 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Hi everyone, I'm Alvaro Vives from the RIPE NCC. If you have questions/comments for the presenter and want the Session Chair to read it out, please write it here stating your name/affiliation and I will copy/paste it in the Zoom Q&A. Keep in mind that there may be up to a 30 second delay for remote participants, so it's better to get your questions in before the question period begins.
10:59 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on
11:02 < luna> should that be live instead of life ?
11:02 < amd2-ripe> v is f :)
11:02 < sjms> Good morning Alvaro
11:03 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Good morning
11:03 < amd2-ripe> and yes, steno url is
11:04 < luna> amd2-ripe: okay then, maybe i am just broken have translated to much documentation in my life, so spotting those things :P
11:04 < amd2-ripe> luna: think we all appreciate your sacrifice :-)
11:08 < teh> I'm confused. Why isn't the same Zoom room from yesterday working for AP today?
11:08 < teh> Is there another room?
11:08 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Petrit Hasani has begun the presentation "Current Policy Topics".
11:10 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> teh in Zoom is the same room as yesterday
11:10 < teh> Alvaro_ChatMonitor: I did that by default, and it told me that the host is hosting another meeting
11:11 < teh> I could not join
11:11 < phessler> there is only one track, and I believe everything (except the GM) will be in the same room
11:11 < teh> I'll try again
11:12 < teh> Goddamnit - two "webinar" subject emails in my inbox with zoom links in the body
11:12 < teh> Of course this morning I clicked the GM one :)
11:12 < teh> Thanks phessler
11:13 < luna> teh: works for me
11:14 < teh> luna: yep, helps if I have the right email in front of me.
11:14 < luna> ah
11:17 < luna> 2019-16 is correct
11:22 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Petrit Hasani has asked for questions.
11:23 < Nurani> Hi! Just out of curiosity. Regarding your map over participation. How do you define participation?
11:23 < Nurani> (Is it anyone who has posted to the list? Anyone who's put forward a proposal? Or attended a RIPE meeting?
11:24 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Hi Nurani, do you want me to pass the question to the Q&A in Zoom?
11:25 < Nurani> yes please
11:26 < luna> ah sorry did not understand it was a joke, found the draft. and tough it was silly
11:26 < brian-1213> luna: Yeah, I reckon gert regrets mentioning it. It's... complex. :)
11:26 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> @Nurani I have passed your question to the Session Chair in the Q&A on Zoom 
11:27 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> The presentation has ended.
11:27 < rhe-786> luna: That's a different IPv4+, for the one that Gert mentioned have a look at the members-discuss archives on if you're brave. :)
11:27 < Barbarossa> luna: Have a look at the archives of the member-discuss list, too for full context
11:28 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Nikolas Pediaditis has begun the presentation "Feedback from RIPE NCC Registration Services".
11:34 < Axu-197032> i find this colour coding unintuitive
11:36 < sjms> Looks like we finally got a balance between membership cost and gained IPv4 addresses
11:36 < sjms> No more people grabbing from the NCC what they can get
11:36 < luna> maybe i should give back my IPv4 adresses i don't use
11:37 < sjms> There doesn't seem to be enough demand anymore
11:37 < ErikBais> it looks like that policy works really good sjms ..
11:37 * sjms is happy
11:37 * ErikBais as well..
11:38 < luna> i rather see most stuff change to IPv6 tbh
11:38 < sasha> it's pretty visible in the LIR graph too:
11:39 < sasha> luna, that would be ideal, but ipv6-only will be useless for the next 10 years except for niche cases, I think
11:40 < sjms> I can't believe that is has already been two years since I stepped down as co-chair…
11:40 < Axu-197032> sasha: how about ipv6+nat64
11:40 < Axu-197032> sjms: kids grow up so fast?
11:42 < sasha> Axu-197032, that should work fine for HTTP, no idea about more complex applications, but I guess someone has looked into this
11:43 < philip_RIPENCC> I would assume that nat64 needs as many public IPv4 addresses as nat44
11:44 < phessler> in short, yes
11:44 < Axu-197032> philip_RIPENCC: nat64 is somewhat simpler to implement and scale tho
11:45 < philip_RIPENCC> Depends on what other problems you want to introduce. Do you want to combile DNSSEC with DNS64? Or do you care about IPv6 error ICMPs?
11:45 < philip_RIPENCC> *combine
11:45 < Axu-197032> error icmps work just fine
11:46 < sasha> and nat64 will still break with applications that explicitly want to connect over ipv4, right?
11:46 < philip_RIPENCC> Not if the IPv4 error ICMP contains the minimum about of packet data or if MPLS
11:46 < wtremmel> someone should write a *simple* how-to to implement IPv6 only at home. With devices everybody has or are cheap, like a Fritzbox and an RaspberryPi
11:46 < wtremmel> or is there a document like that already?
11:47 < amd2-ripe> wtremmel: think sixxs might have something
11:47 < luna> this is great work :)
11:47 < Axu-197032> sasha: generally apps that don't use dns will try to avoid nat64, but on the other hand, there's already an rfc for doing the dns64 magic inside the kernel, and i think windows has an implementation too
11:47 < luna> cleaning up unused AS numbers
11:48 < wtremmel> luna: define unused
11:48 < phessler> idle thought, how many of those un-advertised ASNs are IXP or IXP-like
11:48 < sasha> my voip-phone at home doesn't even have any ipv6 support :/
11:48 < Axu-197032> luna: the ASN in my nickname doesn't appear in paths, but it's very much in use.
11:48 < Remco-25595> phessler - maybe a few hundred on the high end
11:48 < sasha> but the project is not "we don't see it in BGP, it's gone", it's "we don't see it in BGP, ask about it", if I heard right
11:49 < luna> sasha: yeah
11:49 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Nikolas Pediaditis has asked for questions.
11:49 < phessler> yea, as long as it stays as "we don't see it, ask"; then that's good
11:50 < RAFeurdean> other the IXP-like, there are other very good reasons to have a globally unique ASN which is not visible in the GRT
11:50 < mzar> has RIPE considered any discounts or bonuses for ISPs deploying widely IPv6 for customers ?
11:50 < Axu-197032> there was a policy that promoted ipv6 adoption
11:51 < Axu-197032> it has been mostly dismantled
11:51 < Cougar> why should?
11:51 < RAFeurdean> the "virtual ISP" (ISP with no owned local-loop) is one case, when it needs to interconnect to several "infrastructure operators" in order to get the traffic
11:51 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> @mazar Nikolas Pediaditis has asked for questions.
11:51 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> Sorry, @mzar Do you want the Session Chair to read this out?
11:51 < RAFeurdean> or voice ecosystems, which is kind of a paralel internet in its own
11:51 < ripe_246>
11:52 < luna> ripe_246: thx :)
11:53 < mzar> please, if relevant
11:53 < sasha> ripe_246, I like how it has "view on github" in the top - which has no ipv6
11:53 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> @mzar Could you write your name and organisation please?
11:53 < sjms> Use ;)
11:53 < amd2-ripe> yeah, github really needs to get ipv6 :/
11:53 < Axu-197032> 4
11:54 < sjms> Sorry, obviously
11:54 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> The presentation has ended.
11:55 < sasha> there's still a lack of interest/urgency with so many common cloud services for ipv6, and the answer is always "we're working on it, but we don't know what or when"
11:56 < Axu-197032> sasha: "we're working on it" tends to mean "we have added it into our ticketing system, but it's not assigned"
11:57 < Alvaro_ChatMonitor> This session has now ended.

10:58:26 From Alvaro Vives : Hi everyone, I'm Alvaro Vives from the RIPE NCC. If you have questions/comments for the presenter and you want the Session Chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window stating your name/affiliation.
The chat window is meant for discussion ONLY. Please remember to select 'all panelists and attendees' when sending your messages otherwise only panelists see what you’re writing.
10:58:38 From Alvaro Vives : Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on
If you need Live transcription, please visit
10:59:13 From Julien Escario : LaTeX forever
10:59:50 From Melchior Aelmans : Good morning!
11:00:38 From George Michaelson : Good evening!
11:00:44 From Leo Vegoda : I appreciate the time shift. 2am is early enough!
11:01:32 From Luna : should that be live instead of life ?
11:02:08 From Julien Escario : sad the steno can't be added directly in zoom screen
11:02:15 From Sascha Growe : The stenographers are transcribing the sense of life :D
11:03:34 From Ivan Beveridge (AS30931) : You can see the old format (stenographer output next to slides), as Geert mentioned, in
11:04:31 From Julien Escario : yup but the video is far in the past and playing kahoot doesn't fit
11:04:36 From Julien Escario : ;-)
11:04:52 From Marita Phelan : You can also view the steno only in
11:06:02 From Sander Steffann : It’s been two years since I stepped down?!?!?
11:06:12 From Sander Steffann : Damn, feels like yesterday ;)
11:06:19 From Melchior Aelmans : Go Erik!!
11:06:19 From Julien Escario : *applause*
11:06:19 From Dominic Schallert : *applause*
11:06:20 From Sander Steffann : Clap clap clap
11:06:25 From Andreas Wittkemper : clap clap
11:06:27 From Brian Nisbet : Congrats Erik!
11:06:33 From Wolfgang Tremmel : clap clap
11:06:39 From Michael Meyer : *clap* *clap*
11:06:57 From Christian Adler : clapclp
11:08:47 From George Michaelson : Speaker view on slides
11:08:51 From Vladislav Bidikov : Wrong screen - shared :)
11:08:53 From George Michaelson : Better is to see presentation
11:09:19 From Vladislav Bidikov : Dual screen and sharing in zoom...
11:09:23 From Julien Escario : better
11:09:24 From George Michaelson : fixed
11:11:45 From Erik Bais : Randy, the echo isn't in the stream .. it is fine here..
11:11:47 From Luna : Slides is not changing but can follow along in the pdf so its alright
11:12:20 From Julien Escario : too early for petrit ?
11:12:26 From Luna : yep better now :)
11:17:22 From Luna : 2019-16 is correct
11:24:31 From Florian Kohler : That's Kaliningrad I think
11:24:39 From Jaap Akkerhuis : Yes, Kalingrad
11:24:44 From Ferenc Csorba : Yes
11:26:23 From Luna : Sorry did not understand it was a joke found the draft: and tough it was a silly idea, but thanks for clearifying
11:26:55 From Jan Zorz : We also need IPv6+, then :) :) :)
11:27:10 From Tom Hill : Don't you start ;D
11:27:25 From Sascha Growe : ipv8
11:27:31 From peter hessler : *applause*
11:27:34 From Brian Nisbet : *Applause*
11:27:37 From Tom Hill : ISTR Jan was a fan of IPv6- ?
11:27:38 From Vladislav Bidikov : *applause*
11:27:39 From Melchior Aelmans : thanks!!
11:27:40 From Wolfgang Tremmel : clap clap
11:27:40 From Peter Koch : :clap:
11:27:40 From Stéphane Dodeller : clap clap clap
11:27:43 From Leif Sawyer : clap clap
11:27:43 From Christian Adler : clapclapclap
11:27:49 From Geoff Huston : *clap*
11:27:52 From Michael Meyer : *applause*
11:27:54 From Sebastian Becker : *applause*
11:28:08 From Felipe Silveira : * applause *
11:28:27 From Remco van Mook : Pretty sure Gert missed a ‘runout’
11:28:32 From Bengt Gördén : Just play some recorded applause
11:28:57 From Erik Bais : remco : ;-)
11:29:04 From Stéphane Dodeller : You're not alone Nikolas!
11:29:06 From Jan Zorz : Did he say 4 or 5 times runout?
11:29:21 From Erik Bais : it was at least 4+
11:29:28 From Sascha Growe : Even not enough runouts :D
11:29:31 From Jan Zorz : Ahahaha :)
11:30:08 From Vladislav Bidikov : We will runout of coffee while we hear about the runout...
11:30:36 From Jan Zorz : Which in a series of runouts?
11:35:34 From Carlos Friacas : Sander, this is working better than we expected… :-)
11:36:19 From Kurt Kayser : So this is then to be called "soft-runout" ?
11:36:39 From Carlos Friacas : very-very-very-very-very-soft-runout :-)
11:36:53 From Carlos Friacas : 5 /24s per day on average is a surprise to me
11:37:39 From Leif Sawyer : from ~40 /22's to ~5 /24's is a precipitous drop for sure
11:39:11 From Raymond Jetten : So, when will we run out then ? (again)
11:40:12 From Bengt Gördén : raymond: never ;)
11:40:42 From Raymond Jetten : Bengan: are you sure?
11:40:46 From Carlos Friacas : we already have!
11:41:35 From Blake Willis : raymond: unfortunately with covid, if you remember that flat line in internet growth back in the 2002 & 2009 financial crises...
11:42:17 From Blake Willis : it’ll be very interesting to see if the continued demand for legacy IPv4 outstrips companies going bankrupt...
11:42:37 From Raymond Jetten : Blake: lets see and hope for the best
11:43:04 From Blake Willis : & plan for the worst...
11:47:50 From Luna : Cleaning up unused AS numbers is a good thing :)
11:49:48 From Tom Hill : There are numerous situations now, with "direct cloud" style interconnects, where unique AS numbers are required even when they do not exist in the DFZ. This is largely sensible, and is satisfied with the current policy because there is a separate external policy required. It would be problematic to further scrutinise AS utilisation (the current behaviour seems fine.)
11:50:14 From Tom Hill : i.e. honesty-based reclamation
11:51:20 From Tom Hill : That and the fact that 32-bit AS numbers should be encouraged for new applicants (especially those described above)
11:51:28 From Ian Dickinson : agreed entirely. I've returned ASNs in the past, but have also retained some which were not publically visible
11:51:33 From Blake Willis : especially given the-almost-IPv6-like vastness of 32-bit ASN numbering space
11:52:16 From Tom Hill : Gert++ (is that Gert?)
11:53:50 From Blake Willis : same
11:54:17 From Blake Willis : I like the LACNIC “no IPv4 transfers if you haven’t deployed IPv6” policy
11:54:58 From Wolfgang Tremmel : clap clap
11:54:58 From Antonio Balairon : Thank you so much, nice presentation !!!
11:55:00 From Rumy Spratley-Kanis : clap clap
11:55:08 From Blake Willis : “clap track"
11:55:10 From Christian Adler : *applause*
11:55:10 From Leif Sawyer : *claps*
11:55:13 From Paul Rendek : Claps!
11:55:15 From Felipe Silveira : * applause *
11:55:31 From Bengt Gördén : applause.....applause
11:55:43 From Alvaro Vives : Please take into account that sometimes Zoom retains questions from an earlier session that you watched in the Q&A. If you would like to start afresh with a clean Q&A, leave the meeting and rejoin it
11:55:57 From Jan Zorz : Clap clap
11:55:59 From Tom Hill : Clap clap clap
11:56:04 From Melchior Aelmans : thanks!!!!
11:56:25 From Bengt Gördén : Aaaahhhhh. Love that screen.
11:57:00 From Luna : Clap clap thanks
11:57:07 From Luna : cya after lunch in 1 hour 3 minutes
11:58:11 From Christian Adler : Music starts!!! *relaxing*
11:58:38 From Sascha Growe : The ncc elevator starts moving :P
11:58:47 From Christian Adler : I love it!!