14:00 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Hi everyone, I'm Nathalie Trenaman from the RIPE NCC. If you have questions/comments for the presenter and want the Session Chair to read it out, please write it here stating your name/affiliation and I will copy/paste it in the Zoom Q&A. Keep in mind that there may be up to a 30 second delay for remote participants, so it's better to get your questions in before the question period begins.
14:01 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on https://ripe80.ripe.net/
14:02 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Remco van Mook has begun the presentation What’s going on? Lies, Damned Lies and Public Traffic Statistics
14:04 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Remco has asked for questions.
14:13 < blake> BTW the "vandalism" I'm referring to: http://www.leparisien.fr/val-de-marne-94/ile-de-france-coupure-de-reseau-pour-plus-de-100-000-clients-orange-apres-des-actes-de-vandalisme-05-05-2020-8311458.php
14:14 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> The presentation has ended.
14:14 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Massimo Candela has begun the presentation Impact of Covid-19 on Network Performance
14:14 < blake> 100K orange subscribers & several datacenters offline in southeast paris due to targeted vandalism
14:14 < luna> Is Masimos presentation gonna be uploaded?
14:15 < Remco-25595> it will be
14:15 < luna> Remco-25595: thanks :)
14:15 < Remco-25595> np :)
14:15 < blake> 40 splice chambers attacked, this was not "CovIdiots", these guys had data, a vendetta, and angle grinders
14:17 < blake> luna: after a few RIPE meetings one learns to "shift-reload" early & often :-)
14:20 < Remco-25595> this is especially an issue with connect-wg, which usually comes together mere hours before the session
14:21 < Remco-25595> and sometimes even while the session is already on :)
14:24 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Massimo has asked for questions.
14:25 < luna> blake: i did Ctrl + Reload but don't see it
14:26 < luna> Remco-25595: its alright, no worries
14:26 < blake> yep, that's because it's not there :-)
14:26 < blake> but in general before/during meetings these pages are living documents :-)
14:26 < Remco-25595> this is fine.
14:27 < luna> blake: good to know, this is the first RIPE meeting i am attending checked some stuff from RIPE 72 in Copenhagen, but not everything as i got busy with work then
14:29 < blake> "We immediately developed, tested and deployed a way to reduce Netflix’s traffic on these networks by 25% - starting with Italy and Spain, which were experiencing the biggest impact. "
14:29 < luna> Does not Youtube and Steam and such does things like that too
14:29 < blake> yes
14:29 < blake> youtube defaults to 480p or 720p
14:30 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> The presentation has ended.
14:30 < Axu-197032> blake: at times even to 240p :-(
14:30 < Axu-197032> blake: even in networks with no bandwidth issues
14:30 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Bijal Sanghani has begun the presentation Covid-19 IXP Update
14:30 < blake> wow did not see that here, maybe it's country dependent
14:30 < rhalina> will Massimo upload his slides? :)
14:30 < luna> yep everything works
14:32 < blake> Axu however I'm practically sitting on top of a google cache node, so I'm probably not a typical datapoint
14:32 < Remco-25595> I just chased Massimo
14:32 < blake> thx Remco
14:32 < Axu-197032> finland is solely served by cache nodes
14:32 < rhalina> Remco-25595: thx :)
14:32 < Axu-197032> google is not at any ixp
14:32 < rhalina> really intersting talk!
14:32 < blake> Axu yeah that would do it
14:33 < Will_2613> did the same on the mattermost
14:35 < blake> INEX COVID-19 planning & response: https://www.inex.ie/inex-news/covid-19-planning-and-response/
14:36 < blake> they did an amazing job
14:36 < Will_2613> thanks blake, ill look into that
14:38 < blake> main thing I gleaned from INEX was that they followed what HKIX was doing during early lockdowns
14:38 < MaxTulyev> It is interesting how the part of IPv6 traffic changed?
14:38 < blake> they started buying extra patch cables & transcievers in early february
14:39 < Remco-25595> ..which are all made around Wuhan
14:39 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> MaxTulyev: do you want me to relay that question to the Zoom Q&A?
14:39 < will-h> i was ordering things in early feb but in anticipation of delivery difficulties
14:39 < MaxTulyev> If IPv6 grows (in percents of all) - it means IPv6 more adopted in home connections
14:40 < MaxTulyev> Nathalie: yes, please
14:41 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> MaxTulyev: done :)
14:41 < blake> Max my interepretation of the larger increase of IPv6 traffic vs IPv4 is that a lot of "big content" has migrated to IPv6 (akamai, google, apple,facebook etc) & those were the most popular destinations
14:42 < Axu-197032> things you can't access at work
14:42 < blake> Axu good point
14:42 < nick-2128> we had been following fibre patch cable availability on FS.COM
14:42 < blake> things your kids can't access when at school
14:42 < nick-2128> and were using 1M LCLC LSZH cables as a canary
14:42 < nick-2128> they stopped being available at the end of January
14:42 < Axu-197032> blake: s/can/should/
14:42 < nick-2128> and are only available in the last week or two
14:42 < nick-2128> https://www.fs.com/de-en/products/42926.html
14:43 < rhe-786> MaxTulyev: Interesting to zoom into the last few months of the Google stats: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
14:43 < nick-2128> obviously this isn't an endorsement of FS, but a reminder that supply chains are complex and lack of availability of any individual component can have serious downstream effects
14:43 < blake> Axu have you talked to any of the Google cache people? I can put you in touch if you like.
14:44 < Md> nick-2128: FS told me that they could not fix their Cisco-coded 40GE DAC cable because the lab switches needed are in their Wuhan office, in lockdown
14:44 < blake> (of course Florence is not here...)
14:44 < Axu-197032> blake: i've met florence and some others a few times at EPFs
14:44 < blake> cool. I guess it's a country/content issue then?
14:44 < nick-2128> florence has moved away from peering / interconnection
14:44 < Axu-197032> nick-2128: that's why i mentioned the other people. :)
14:45 < Axu-197032> blake: i can go into the details over a beer
14:45 < Will_2613> we asked and were expecting to have someone from google but we didnt had feedback unfortunately
14:45 < nick-2128> Md: being unable to get 1M LCLC patch cables with LSZH sheathing is, honestly, very scaryfibre patch cable lszh
14:46 < Md> agreed
14:48 * Axu-197032 cheers loudly.
14:49 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Nurani Nimpuno has begun the presentation Peering Toolbox
14:49 < Remco-25595> apologies Max but we're overrunning rather badly
14:51 < luna> http://peeringtoolbox.euro-ix.net/ that url does not seem to work
14:52 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> luna: I can relay that to the Q&A if you want
14:52 < blake> "peeringtoolbox.euro-ix.net’s server DNS address could not be found."
14:53 < luna> Nathalie_ChatMonitor: sounds like a good idea
14:53 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> just did, thank you
14:54 < Remco-25595> site is not up yet so that would be correct :)
14:54 < luna> Remco-25595: ah alright makes sense
14:55 < Nathalie_ChatMonitor> Sometimes Zoom retains questions from an earlier session that you watched in the Q&A. If you would like to start afresh with a clean Q&A, leave the meeting and rejoin it. This session has now ended.
[ZOOM CHAT LOGS]
14:00:30 From Nathalie Trenaman : Hi everyone, I'm Nathalie Trenaman from the RIPE NCC. If you have questions/comments for the presenter and you want the Session Chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window stating your name/affiliation. The chat window is meant for discussion ONLY. Please remember to select 'all panelists and attendees' when sending your messages otherwise only panelists see what you’re writing.
14:00:44 From Nathalie Trenaman : Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public on https://ripe80.ripe.net/. If you need Live transcription, please visit https://ripe80.ripe.net/live/steno
14:05:53 From Blake Willis : Perhaps Journalists are used to calling companies & asking them for comment
14:06:02 From Michael Oghia : I have some suggestions RE: journalism (will write to not keep up the conversation)
14:06:06 From Blake Willis : & they don’t know who to call for “The Internet"
14:06:31 From Julien Escario : This Jenn, is 'the Internet'
14:07:18 From Luna : :D
14:07:28 From Nurani Nimpuno : It depends how you define “transparency”. Is the question “how much traffic is sent where?” Or is the question “Does it work? How do we know it works? Will it continue to work even throughout a crisis?”
14:09:01 From Michael Oghia : In general, there is often a lack of capacity, especially it relates to Internet policy-related knowledge. Many are also struggling with funding – especially now, but even before, journalists are struggling. But there are plenty of journalism and media organizations that work in this sector that RIPE could work with. For example, I helped launch a new Dynamic Coalition within the IGF that is focused on journalism sustainability, and many of the organizations involved there could be a good mediator between the technical side and the media
14:09:53 From Michael Oghia : (sorry I forgot a few words there in my haste)
14:10:27 From Blake Willis : May I suggest that if anyone here is approached by a journalist, a larger challenge has been physical damage to infrastructure & threats to field technicians, whether it be “CovIdiots” burning mobile towers & booby-trapping equipment cabinets, or targeted vandalism cutting fiber
14:10:43 From Anita Nikolich : Vint Cerf had a nice opinion piece this week that was very objective: https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/497053-the-internet-isnt-broken-but-its-inequalities-need-to-be-fixed
14:11:19 From Michael Oghia : Definitely all. I merely want to highlight that such connections to the broader media sector is available, and they are happy to work with you.
14:12:18 From Andy Davidson : In some markets the media’s understanding of the Internet is shaped by complaints from end users about the lack of availability of high capacity services to pockets (or “not spots”) or unreliable, or underperforming last-mile. I think we can demonstrate in the interconnection world that our services help ISPs and content networks deliver unusual and unpredictable traffic patterns really well and that the debate needs to move to the last mile.
14:13:16 From Mike Hughes : Andy D - or last 100m. Terribly configured wifi networks cause a lot of pain and negative perception
14:13:27 From Michael Oghia : +1 Andy. Bear in mind, too, that media outlets rely on the Internet to function. Getting more journalists involved in these kinds of processes is important
14:13:50 From Nurani Nimpuno : +1 Andy indeed :)
14:13:57 From Tom Hill : +1 Mike Hughes
14:14:05 From Michael Oghia : Happy to talk more about this topic all :-)
14:14:14 From Michael Oghia : And thanks for broaching it. Solutions exist!
14:14:15 From Carlos Martinez : 2.4Ghz wifi is the real plague around here (Uruguay)
14:14:22 From Luna : Is Masimos presentation gonna be uploaded?
14:15:06 From Luna : nevermind, got an answer on IRC
14:15:07 From Will van Gulik : Luna yes, we were a bit in a rush :)
14:15:33 From Peter Steinhäuser : @Carlos Martinez: agreed to a certain degree but also depends on the HW/SW you use
14:20:01 From Vesna Manojlovic : RIPE NCC has published articles about the network delays and other impact of the COVID-19 on the Internet performance on RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/covid19
14:21:18 From Will van Gulik : Great info Vesna, I will push all the links to the mailing list afterwards !
14:21:39 From Carlos Martinez : Agreed @peter
14:22:15 From Peter Steinhäuser : @carlos: Maybe we can talk about that at a later time
14:23:41 From Nurani Nimpuno : For the record, even though there was not a legally enforced in Sweden, there were very strong recommendations to stay at home. And data shows that people largely respected those recommendations. (So I think you’re analysis is correct.:) )
14:24:26 From Nurani Nimpuno : (It’s a comment for Massimo. You don’t need to read it out as a question.)
14:24:43 From Nathalie Trenaman : Ok :)
14:24:48 From Will van Gulik : The most relevant article to this WG: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/romain_fontugne/network-delays-in-times-of-corona & https://ihr.iijlab.net/ihr/en-us/covid19
14:25:19 From Thomas King : Do you have measurements from days before the COVID-19 lockdown?
14:25:27 From Thomas King : The difference would be interesting to see
14:25:48 From Rinse Kloek : The scale down of the high bandwidth profiles by Netflix had the most significant impact in our network.
14:26:31 From Rinse Kloek : We see enormous growth of netflix traffic during the lock down in The Netherlands. But after Netflix did some changing of their video profiles, we saw a 50% decrease of the Netflix peak
14:26:54 From Thomas King : Thanks for clarifying
14:27:05 From Rinse Kloek : Another thing we saw was the 9:00 - 10:00 upstream peak from home
14:27:16 From Blake Willis : I find that super interesting, as Netflix only restricted their highest-quality feeds
14:27:40 From Mirjam Kühne : It is also part of the page Vesna sent above, but this one might be especially interesting and closely related to Massimo’s talk: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/romain_fontugne/network-delays-in-times-of-corona
14:27:56 From Blake Willis : https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/reducing-netflix-traffic-where-its-needed
14:30:00 From Rinse Kloek : @Blake Wills: That 50% was from sunday t monday peak
14:30:17 From Rinse Kloek : Se the sunday sunday peak difference was a bit less (40% decrease).
14:30:26 From Blake Willis : thx
14:30:47 From Luna : yep, everything works
14:32:32 From Paul Wilson : How is the audio sync for other participants here? For me right now, the sync is out by something like 5 or 10 or more seconds. It’s so far out it’s really hard to tell how far.
14:32:46 From Michael Oghia : It’s working fine for me Paul
14:33:03 From Michael Oghia : But I’m a lot closer :-)
14:33:09 From Remco van Mook : Been fine here so far :)
14:33:40 From Kurt Kayser : lip sync is quite ok on my side.
14:34:00 From Paul Wilson : I will restart zoom, but it’s real bad right now. (otherwise quality is perfectly fine)
14:34:11 From Anita Nikolich : off by a tiny bit here
14:34:21 From Michael Oghia : Yeah, try that. If it doesn’t work, then maybe try via mobile?
14:35:36 From Blake Willis : INEX COVID-19 planning & response: https://www.inex.ie/inex-news/covid-19-planning-and-response/
14:48:16 From Kurt Kayser : **applause**
14:48:22 From Paul Hare : Thanks very much. Interesting :)
14:48:32 From James Kennedy : **applause**
14:51:40 From Remco van Mook : HPH we’re well aware - apologies. Zoom lacks a gentle prod stick to tell presenters to hurry up.
14:52:00 From Robert Listet : I can't seem to get to https://peeringtoolbox.euro-ix.net/ ?
14:52:30 From Will van Gulik : Robert : same here, we will notify Nurani once the talk is done
14:53:11 From Will van Gulik : right, thanks bijal !
14:53:32 From Will van Gulik : Bijal said the site is not up yet. So it's under control
14:54:11 From Paul Thornton : That was getting close to Kurtis speed!
14:54:30 From Luca Cicchelli : not yet :-)
14:54:49 From Niels Bakker : This was a great WG, cheers
14:54:57 From Adonis Stergiopoulos : Sometimes Zoom retains questions from an earlier session that you watched in the Q&A. If you would like to start afresh with a clean Q&A, leave the meeting and rejoin it. This session has now ended.
14:54:59 From Rob Evans : Co-op first!
14:55:03 From James Kennedy : thanks!
14:55:08 From Michael Oghia : Services or cooperation?
14:55:14 From Remco van Mook : Coop, my bad
14:55:18 From Michael Oghia : No worries :)
14:55:18 From Masataka Mawatari : Thank you
14:55:35 From Piotr Strzyżewski : NCC services is from 16:00, isn't?
14:55:36 From Chris Buckridge : It’s actually Cooperation WG, yes
14:55:37 From Michael Oghia : I have a meeting unfortunately, so I can’t make it (but might try and open on my phone to follow the slides at least)
14:55:52 From Chris Buckridge : Cooperation WG from 15:00, NCC Services from 16:00
14:56:02 From Hans Petter Holen : https://ripe80.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/coop-wg/
14:56:03 From Michael Oghia : Thanks Remco for your excellent moderation!
14:56:05 From Piotr Strzyżewski : Thanks :D
14:56:06 From Frank Altpeter : Well, to be honest... based on the fact that we now have 5 minutes Elevator Music, you COULD have given Bijal the time to finish
14:56:07 From Will van Gulik : Thanks everyone again, sorry for over running our time
14:56:26 From Will van Gulik : We hope that your coffee break will not be too short ;)
14:56:41 From Blake Willis : it seems that way, however everyone needs to get ready for cooperation working group in 3 minutes
14:56:52 From Hans Petter Holen : There are some technical preparations to be done between sessions, and staff some time need a quick refreshment…
14:56:53 From Blake Willis : there’s a lot going on behind the scenes
14:56:59 From Blake Willis : & only one zoom channel...
14:57:16 From Frank Altpeter : no offense, just a thought, never mind :)
14:57:29 From Blake Willis : sure, none taken, it’s a valid point
14:57:42 From Nurani Nimpuno : Dear Dominic Schallert, I am a community member and not working for the Euro-IX. :) I suggest you get in touch with Bijal and the Euro-IX Secretariat. I am sure they will find a solution.
14:58:40 From Kurt Kayser : In general this is a comment to all operators: without a good network, all home-office work would NOT be possible: Thanks to all who make the net working so smoothly!
14:58:52 From Dominic Schallert : Hey Alexa, play Elevator Music.
14:59:05 From Frank Altpeter : I'm glad my alexa listens to "Computer" :)
14:59:17 From Dominic Schallert : :-)
14:59:25 From Blake Willis : https://xkcd.com/1807/
